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Brit sociologits' banned words list
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Steve Hayes  
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´º½º±×·ì: alt.usage.english, alt.religion.christian.east-orthodox
º¸³½»ç¶÷: Steve Hayes <hayesm...@hotmail.com>
³¯Â¥: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 06:58:57 +0200
ÇöÁö½Ã°£: 2008³â9¿ù23ÀÏ(È­) ¿ÀÈÄ1½Ã58ºÐ
Á¦¸ñ: Brit sociologits' banned words list
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/debates/2988760/The-phrase...

The phrase Old Masters is sexist, authors and students are told

Students and academics are being banned from using the term "Old
Masters" and "seminal" because of claims they are sexist.

Publishers and universities are outlawing dozens of seemingly
innocuous words in case they cause offence.

Banned phrases on the list, which was originally drawn up by
sociologists, include Old Masters, which has been used for centuries
to refer to great painters - almost all of whom were in fact male.

It is claimed that the term discriminates against women and should be
replaced by "classic artists".

The list of banned words was written by the British Sociological
Association, whose members include dozens of professors, lecturers and
researchers.

The list of allegedly racist words includes immigrants, developing
nations and black, while so-called "disablist" terms include patient,
the elderly and special needs.

It comes after one council outlawed the allegedly sexist phrase "man
on the street", and another banned staff from saying "brainstorm" in
case it offended people with epilepsy.

However the list of "sensitive" language is said by critics to amount
to unwarranted censorship and wrongly assume that people are offended
by words that have been in use for years.

Prof Frank Furedi, a sociologist at the University of Kent, said he
was shocked when he saw the extent of the list and how readily
academics had accepted it.

"I was genuinely taken aback when I discovered that the term 'Chinese
Whisper' was offensive because of its apparently racist connotations.
I was moved to despair when I found out that one of my favourite
words, 'civilised', ought not be used by a culturally sensitive author
because of its alleged racist implications."

Prof Furedi said that censorship is about the "policing of moral
behaviour" by an army of campaign groups, teachers and media
organisations who are on a "crusade" to ban certain words and promote
their own politically correct alternatives.

He said people should see the efforts to ban certain words as the
"coercive regulation" of everyday language and the "closing down of
discussions" rather than positive attempts to protect vulnerable
groups from offence.

The list of banned words is now sent out to prospective authors by
Policy Press, a publisher of social science books and journals based
at the University of Bristol, but is also used in many academic
institutions.

The University of Bristol's School for Policy Studies recommends the
guidelines to help students "challenge heterosexist assumptions", and
they are included in a "toolkit" to combat institutional racism
included on the University of Leeds' website.

King's College London says they "may provide a good starting point"
and Liverpool John Moores University provides a link to them in its
students' guide. The Open University said they are an "appropriate
source of reference and advice" for students.

Napier University in Edinburgh says the list is "well worth looking
at" while the University of East London advises its students they
should "attempt to incorporate" it.

Even a secondary school in Norwich includes a link to the list on its
website, with the statement: "Students may care to consider how far we
inadvertently reproduce inaccurate sexist assumptions in the language
we use, both written and spoken."

The list of racist terms features black, which "can be used in a
racist sense" and should be changed to "black peoples" or "black
communities".

Immigrants is said to have "racist overtones" because of its
association with "immigration legislation", while developing nations -
intended as a more sensitive replacement for Third World - is
"prejudical" because it implies a comparison with developed countries.

Although not included on the Policy Press list, the BSA warns authors
against using civilisation because of its "racist overtones that
derive from a colonialist perception of the world".

Among the "sexist" terms to be avoided are "seminal" and "disseminate"
because they are derived from the word semen and supposedly imply a
male-dominated view of the world.

Authors are also told to "avoid using medical labels" when writing
about disabled people as this "may promote a view of them as
patients".

In addition, the list says "special needs" should be changed to
"additional needs", "patient" to "person" and "the elderly" to "older
people".

"Able-bodied person" should be replaced with "non-disabled person", it
is claimed.

--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
Web:  http://hayesfam.bravehost.com/stevesig.htm
Blog: http://methodius.blogspot.com
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk


    Àü´Þ  
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Steve Hayes  
ÇÁ·ÎÇÊ º¸±â   ·Î ¹ø¿ª ¹ø¿ªµÊ(¿ø¹® º¸±â)
(1 »ç¿ëÀÚ)  Ãß°¡ ¿É¼Ç 2008³â9¿ù23ÀÏ, ¿ÀÈÄ2½Ã09ºÐ
´º½º±×·ì: alt.usage.english, alt.religion.christian.east-orthodox
º¸³½»ç¶÷: Steve Hayes <hayesm...@hotmail.com>
³¯Â¥: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 07:09:09 +0200
ÇöÁö½Ã°£: 2008³â9¿ù23ÀÏ(È­) ¿ÀÈÄ2½Ã09ºÐ
Á¦¸ñ: Re: Brit sociologits' banned words list

On Tue, 23 Sep 2008 06:58:57 +0200, Steve Hayes <hayesm...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/debates/2988760/The-phrase...

>The phrase Old Masters is sexist, authors and students are told

<snip>

>Students and academics are being banned from using the term "Old
>Masters" and "seminal" because of claims they are sexist.
>Among the "sexist" terms to be avoided are "seminal" and "disseminate"
>because they are derived from the word semen and supposedly imply a
>male-dominated view of the world.

This, and other examples, seem to be candidates for Peter Berger's (a
sociologist, by the way) description as "infantile misunderstandings
masquerading as hermeneutics.

"Seminary" is also derived from "semen", so what do this bunch have to say
about W.S. Gilbert's lines

"three little maids who all unwary
come from a ladies seminary"

--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
Web:  http://hayesfam.bravehost.com/stevesig.htm
Blog: http://methodius.blogspot.com
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk


    Àü´Þ  
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John O'Flaherty  
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´º½º±×·ì: alt.usage.english, alt.religion.christian.east-orthodox
º¸³½»ç¶÷: John O'Flaherty <quias...@yeeha.com>
³¯Â¥: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 00:44:26 -0500
ÇöÁö½Ã°£: 2008³â9¿ù23ÀÏ(È­) ¿ÀÈÄ2½Ã44ºÐ
Á¦¸ñ: Re: Brit sociologits' banned words list
On Tue, 23 Sep 2008 07:09:09 +0200, Steve Hayes

 Derived from "semen", the Latin word for "seed". Plants grow from
seeds, which are already combined male & female stuff, more analogous
to fertilized human eggs than to human semen. Infantile
misunderstandings, indeed.
 And if "Old Masters" is replaced by "classic artists", does that
change the composition of the set, or just avoid reminding someone of
a dissonant fact?
 "Handicapped", "disabled", "differently-abled"... a succession of
flights from unpleasant fact. Rather lame, I'd say... oops!
--
John

    Àü´Þ  
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Bogosity  
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´º½º±×·ì: alt.usage.english
º¸³½»ç¶÷: Bogosity <brewh...@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca>
³¯Â¥: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 23:49:49 -0700 (PDT)
ÇöÁö½Ã°£: 2008³â9¿ù23ÀÏ(È­) ¿ÀÈÄ3½Ã49ºÐ
Á¦¸ñ: Re: Brit sociologits' banned words list
I like the term "classic artist". Recommendations about language in
words to avoid will fall by the wayside in people who know what
they're talking about and hav a point to make. To tell it like you see
it is the essence of clarity.

    Àü´Þ  
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Steve Hayes  
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(1 »ç¿ëÀÚ)  Ãß°¡ ¿É¼Ç 2008³â9¿ù23ÀÏ, ¿ÀÈÄ4½Ã10ºÐ
´º½º±×·ì: alt.usage.english, alt.religion.christian.east-orthodox
º¸³½»ç¶÷: Steve Hayes <hayesm...@hotmail.com>
³¯Â¥: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 09:10:25 +0200
ÇöÁö½Ã°£: 2008³â9¿ù23ÀÏ(È­) ¿ÀÈÄ4½Ã10ºÐ
Á¦¸ñ: Re: Brit sociologits' banned words list
On Tue, 23 Sep 2008 00:44:26 -0500, John O'Flaherty <quias...@yeeha.com>
wrote:

The scary thing is that this list was allegedly compiled by academics, who are
supposed to be educated people.

> "Handicapped", "disabled", "differently-abled"... a succession of
>flights from unpleasant fact. Rather lame, I'd say... oops!

Though I must say I prefer to think of myself as an old fart rather than an
elderly fart.

I think "elderly" was originally introduced as a euphemism for "old".

--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
Web:  http://hayesfam.bravehost.com/stevesig.htm
Blog: http://methodius.blogspot.com
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk


    Àü´Þ  
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HVS  
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´º½º±×·ì: alt.usage.english, alt.religion.christian.east-orthodox
Ãß°¡ ´äº¯: alt.usage.english
º¸³½»ç¶÷: HVS <use...@REMOVETHISwhhvs.co.uk>
³¯Â¥: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 08:19:17 +0100
ÇöÁö½Ã°£: 2008³â9¿ù23ÀÏ(È­) ¿ÀÈÄ4½Ã19ºÐ
Á¦¸ñ: Re: Brit sociologits' banned words list
On 23 Sep 2008, Steve Hayes wrote

> The scary thing is that this list was allegedly compiled by
> academics, who are supposed to be educated people.

Hardly a surprising or new phenomenon, though -- ivory towers 'n' all
that.

--
Cheers, Harvey
CanEng and BrEng, indiscriminately mixed


    Àü´Þ  
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Linards Ticmanis  
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´º½º±×·ì: alt.usage.english, alt.religion.christian.east-orthodox
º¸³½»ç¶÷: Linards Ticmanis <ticma...@gmx.de>
³¯Â¥: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 12:08:12 +0200
ÇöÁö½Ã°£: 2008³â9¿ù23ÀÏ(È­) ¿ÀÈÄ7½Ã08ºÐ
Á¦¸ñ: Re: Brit sociologits' banned words list

Steve Hayes wrote:
> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/debates/2988760/The-phrase...

> The phrase Old Masters is sexist, authors and students are told

> Students and academics are being banned from using the term "Old
> Masters" and "seminal" because of claims they are sexist.

I wonder if the whole thing isn't an urban legend created by some
anti-PC people. It just sounds too absurd. Does the Telegraph cite a source?

--
Linards Ticmanis


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Martin Ambuhl  
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´º½º±×·ì: alt.usage.english, alt.religion.christian.east-orthodox
º¸³½»ç¶÷: Martin Ambuhl <mamb...@earthlink.net>
³¯Â¥: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 06:47:52 -0400
ÇöÁö½Ã°£: 2008³â9¿ù23ÀÏ(È­) ¿ÀÈÄ7½Ã47ºÐ
Á¦¸ñ: Re: Brit sociologits' banned words list

Steve Hayes wrote:
> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/debates/2988760/The-phrase...
> Prof Frank Furedi, a sociologist at the University of Kent, said he
> was shocked when he saw the extent of the list and how readily
> academics had accepted it.

Frank Furedi is not just a sociologist at the University of Kent, but an
extreme right-wing nut.  The titles of his books hints at it:
_Politics of Fear_, _Where Have All the Intellectuals Gone?_,
_Therapy Culture_, _Paranoid Parenting and Culture of Fear_.  His
current crusade is to prove that the "PC crowd" has falsely portrayed
Sarah Palin as a "witch".  That she has deeply troubling policies
doesn't matter to him.  Bashing the "PC-crowd" and support an extreme
right-wing nut is too good a thing for him to pass up.  Before that, his
goal was to prove that everyone worried about Hurricane Gustav was a
paranoid commie.

> The list of banned words is now sent out to prospective authors by
> Policy Press, a publisher of social science books and journals based
> at the University of Bristol, but is also used in many academic
> institutions.

The Policy Press is a specialty publishing house.  Its guidelines for
authors (which has a useful "Appendix A" on its house style) includes
the text below.  Notice that the list is explicitly (a) not their list
and (b) not of banned words.  Also note that these two paragraphs from
the quoted article
 > The list of racist terms features black, which "can be used in a
 > racist sense" and should be changed to "black peoples" or "black
 > communities".

 > Immigrants is said to have "racist overtones" because of its
 > association with "immigration legislation", while developing nations -
 > intended as a more sensitive replacement for Third World - is
 > "prejudical" because it implies a comparison with developed countries.

are a rather perverse misreading of what the Policy Press guidelines
actually say.

[from the Policy Press guidelines for authors]

...

Ãß°¡ Á¤º¸ »


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Bogosity  
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´º½º±×·ì: alt.usage.english
º¸³½»ç¶÷: Bogosity <brewh...@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca>
³¯Â¥: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 03:58:06 -0700 (PDT)
ÇöÁö½Ã°£: 2008³â9¿ù23ÀÏ(È­) ¿ÀÈÄ7½Ã58ºÐ
Á¦¸ñ: Re: Brit sociologits' banned words list
On Sep 23, 4:08 am, Linards Ticmanis <ticma...@gmx.de> asked:

> Does the Telegraph cite a source?

Yes. It also got some criticism from "Dodgy Codger" that I like. And,
since you asked about sources...wikipedia has a long list of words to
avoid, too. They don't tell you why, but if you think about them long
enough or try to use them, then it'll come to you, eventually, as
interfering with a pillar or clarity.

Different venues; different rules. wikipedia is not a social scene.
Chat rooms are, and not wikipedia chat rooms. They wouldn't put up
with how much space numbers from Purl Gurl consume.


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Athel Cornish-Bowden  
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 Ãß°¡ ¿É¼Ç 2008³â9¿ù23ÀÏ, ¿ÀÈÄ8½Ã03ºÐ
´º½º±×·ì: alt.usage.english, alt.religion.christian.east-orthodox
º¸³½»ç¶÷: Athel Cornish-Bowden <athel...@yahoo.co.uk>
³¯Â¥: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 13:03:59 +0200
ÇöÁö½Ã°£: 2008³â9¿ù23ÀÏ(È­) ¿ÀÈÄ8½Ã03ºÐ
Á¦¸ñ: Re: Brit sociologits' banned words list
On 2008-09-23 09:10:25 +0200, Steve Hayes <hayesm...@hotmail.com> said:

[ ... ]

> The scary thing is that this list was allegedly compiled by academics, who are
> supposed to be educated people.

Don't confuse sociologists with academics, however.

--
athel


    Àü´Þ  
¸Þ½ÃÁö¸¦ °Ô½ÃÇÏ·Á¸é ±×·ì¿¡ °¡ÀÔÇØ¾ß ÇÕ´Ï´Ù.
¸Þ½ÃÁö¸¦ °Ô½ÃÇÏ·Á¸é ¸ÕÀú ÇØ´ç ±×·ì¿¡ °¡ÀÔÇÏ¼Å¾ß ÇÕ´Ï´Ù.
°Ô½ÃÇϱâ Àü¿¡ °¡ÀÔ ¼³Á¤ ÆäÀÌÁö¿¡¼­ ´Ð³×ÀÓÀ» ¾÷µ¥ÀÌÆ®Çϼ¼¿ä.
¸Þ½ÃÁö¸¦ °Ô½ÃÇÒ ¼ö ÀÖ´Â ±ÇÇÑÀÌ ¾ø½À´Ï´Ù.
Athel Cornish-Bowden  
ÇÁ·ÎÇÊ º¸±â   ·Î ¹ø¿ª ¹ø¿ªµÊ(¿ø¹® º¸±â)
 Ãß°¡ ¿É¼Ç 2008³â9¿ù23ÀÏ, ¿ÀÈÄ8½Ã10ºÐ
´º½º±×·ì: alt.usage.english, alt.religion.christian.east-orthodox
º¸³½»ç¶÷: Athel Cornish-Bowden <athel...@yahoo.co.uk>
³¯Â¥: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 13:10:52 +0200
ÇöÁö½Ã°£: 2008³â9¿ù23ÀÏ(È­) ¿ÀÈÄ8½Ã10ºÐ
Á¦¸ñ: Re: Brit sociologits' banned words list
On 2008-09-23 12:47:52 +0200, Martin Ambuhl <mamb...@earthlink.net> said:

Prof

>> Frank Furedi, a sociologist at the University of Kent, said he
>> was shocked when he saw the extent of the list and how readily
>> academics had accepted it.

> Frank Furedi is not just a sociologist at the University of Kent, but
> an extreme right-wing nut.  The titles of his books hints at it:
> _Politics of Fear_, _Where Have All the Intellectuals Gone?_,
> _Therapy Culture_, _Paranoid Parenting and Culture of Fear_.  His
> current crusade is to prove that the "PC crowd" has falsely portrayed
> Sarah Palin as a "witch".  That she has deeply troubling policies
> doesn't matter to him.  Bashing the "PC-crowd" and support an extreme
> right-wing nut is too good a thing for him to pass up.  Before that,
> his goal was to prove that everyone worried about Hurricane Gustav was
> a paranoid commie.

Good points all. I posted a comment before reading yours, but we should
be cautious (mopre cautious than I was) about treating any one
sociologist as speaking for all, any more than Steve Fuller's belief
that intelligent design has something to do with science represents the
general view among philosophers.

--
athel


    Àü´Þ  
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¸Þ½ÃÁö¸¦ °Ô½ÃÇÏ·Á¸é ¸ÕÀú ÇØ´ç ±×·ì¿¡ °¡ÀÔÇÏ¼Å¾ß ÇÕ´Ï´Ù.
°Ô½ÃÇϱâ Àü¿¡ °¡ÀÔ ¼³Á¤ ÆäÀÌÁö¿¡¼­ ´Ð³×ÀÓÀ» ¾÷µ¥ÀÌÆ®Çϼ¼¿ä.
¸Þ½ÃÁö¸¦ °Ô½ÃÇÒ ¼ö ÀÖ´Â ±ÇÇÑÀÌ ¾ø½À´Ï´Ù.
Donna Richoux  
ÇÁ·ÎÇÊ º¸±â   ·Î ¹ø¿ª ¹ø¿ªµÊ(¿ø¹® º¸±â)
 Ãß°¡ ¿É¼Ç 2008³â9¿ù23ÀÏ, ¿ÀÈÄ8½Ã11ºÐ
´º½º±×·ì: alt.usage.english
º¸³½»ç¶÷: t...@euronet.nl (Donna Richoux)
³¯Â¥: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 13:11:42 +0200
ÇöÁö½Ã°£: 2008³â9¿ù23ÀÏ(È­) ¿ÀÈÄ8½Ã11ºÐ
Á¦¸ñ: Re: Brit sociologits' banned words list

Martin Ambuhl <mamb...@earthlink.net> wrote:

[snip]

[snip very long quote]

Thanks to Martin for supplying this material. Because much of it is in
double-column format and so loses meaning in a text list, people may
want to see the same material in pdf (go to Appendix B):

https://www.policypress.org.uk/author/policypress_author_guidelines.pdf

Or by putting that URL into Google, you can get their "View as HTML"
version.

This "Appendix B" refers to the British Sociology organization, which
has changed its web location. See the "Language" pages at:

   http://www.britsoc.co.uk/equality/

Oh, and for those who doubt that "Old Masters" is sexist -- I've never
heard a woman said to be a master of anything. Masterful, yes. To master
something, yes. But a master, no.

--
Best -- Donna Richoux


    Àü´Þ  
¸Þ½ÃÁö¸¦ °Ô½ÃÇÏ·Á¸é ±×·ì¿¡ °¡ÀÔÇØ¾ß ÇÕ´Ï´Ù.
¸Þ½ÃÁö¸¦ °Ô½ÃÇÏ·Á¸é ¸ÕÀú ÇØ´ç ±×·ì¿¡ °¡ÀÔÇÏ¼Å¾ß ÇÕ´Ï´Ù.
°Ô½ÃÇϱâ Àü¿¡ °¡ÀÔ ¼³Á¤ ÆäÀÌÁö¿¡¼­ ´Ð³×ÀÓÀ» ¾÷µ¥ÀÌÆ®Çϼ¼¿ä.
¸Þ½ÃÁö¸¦ °Ô½ÃÇÒ ¼ö ÀÖ´Â ±ÇÇÑÀÌ ¾ø½À´Ï´Ù.
Mike Barnes  
ÇÁ·ÎÇÊ º¸±â   ·Î ¹ø¿ª ¹ø¿ªµÊ(¿ø¹® º¸±â)
 Ãß°¡ ¿É¼Ç 2008³â9¿ù23ÀÏ, ¿ÀÈÄ8½Ã17ºÐ
´º½º±×·ì: alt.usage.english, alt.religion.christian.east-orthodox
º¸³½»ç¶÷: Mike Barnes <mikebar...@bluebottle.com>
³¯Â¥: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 12:17:47 +0100
ÇöÁö½Ã°£: 2008³â9¿ù23ÀÏ(È­) ¿ÀÈÄ8½Ã17ºÐ
Á¦¸ñ: Re: Brit sociologits' banned words list
In alt.usage.english, Linards Ticmanis wrote:

>Steve Hayes wrote:
>> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/debates/2988760/The-
>>phrase-Old-Masters-is-sexist-authors-and-students-are-told.html
>>  The phrase Old Masters is sexist, authors and students are told
>>  Students and academics are being banned from using the term "Old
>> Masters" and "seminal" because of claims they are sexist.

>I wonder if the whole thing isn't an urban legend created by some anti-
>PC people. It just sounds too absurd. Does the Telegraph cite a source?

The source is the British Sociological Association.

I went to http://www.britsoc.co.uk and then did a Google site search for
"seminal". I got fifteen hits, of which the first described "seminal" as
sexist. As far as I could see the other fourteen hits used the word
naturally.

  http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=site:www.britsoc.co.uk+seminal

I think "sociologits" sums it up nicely.

--
Mike Barnes
Cheshire, England


    Àü´Þ  
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¸Þ½ÃÁö¸¦ °Ô½ÃÇÏ·Á¸é ¸ÕÀú ÇØ´ç ±×·ì¿¡ °¡ÀÔÇÏ¼Å¾ß ÇÕ´Ï´Ù.
°Ô½ÃÇϱâ Àü¿¡ °¡ÀÔ ¼³Á¤ ÆäÀÌÁö¿¡¼­ ´Ð³×ÀÓÀ» ¾÷µ¥ÀÌÆ®Çϼ¼¿ä.
¸Þ½ÃÁö¸¦ °Ô½ÃÇÒ ¼ö ÀÖ´Â ±ÇÇÑÀÌ ¾ø½À´Ï´Ù.
Wood Avens  
ÇÁ·ÎÇÊ º¸±â   ·Î ¹ø¿ª ¹ø¿ªµÊ(¿ø¹® º¸±â)
 Ãß°¡ ¿É¼Ç 2008³â9¿ù23ÀÏ, ¿ÀÈÄ8½Ã31ºÐ
´º½º±×·ì: alt.usage.english
º¸³½»ç¶÷: Wood Avens <woodav...@askjennison.com>
³¯Â¥: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 12:31:09 +0100
ÇöÁö½Ã°£: 2008³â9¿ù23ÀÏ(È­) ¿ÀÈÄ8½Ã31ºÐ
Á¦¸ñ: Re: Brit sociologits' banned words list
On Tue, 23 Sep 2008 13:11:42 +0200, t...@euronet.nl (Donna Richoux)
wrote:

>Oh, and for those who doubt that "Old Masters" is sexist -- I've never
>heard a woman said to be a master of anything. Masterful, yes. To master
>something, yes. But a master, no.

Not even in chess?

--

Katy Jennison

spamtrap: remove the first two letters after the @


    Àü´Þ  
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K. Edgcombe  
ÇÁ·ÎÇÊ º¸±â   ·Î ¹ø¿ª ¹ø¿ªµÊ(¿ø¹® º¸±â)
 Ãß°¡ ¿É¼Ç 2008³â9¿ù23ÀÏ, ¿ÀÈÄ8½Ã38ºÐ
´º½º±×·ì: alt.usage.english
º¸³½»ç¶÷: k...@cus.cam.ac.uk (K. Edgcombe)
³¯Â¥: 23 Sep 2008 11:38:47 GMT
ÇöÁö½Ã°£: 2008³â9¿ù23ÀÏ(È­) ¿ÀÈÄ8½Ã38ºÐ
Á¦¸ñ: Re: Brit sociologits' banned words list
In article <7rkhd49391qjbomorlr8ihrc1glf06d...@4ax.com>,
Wood Avens  <woodav...@askjennison.com> wrote:

>On Tue, 23 Sep 2008 13:11:42 +0200, t...@euronet.nl (Donna Richoux)
>wrote:

>>Oh, and for those who doubt that "Old Masters" is sexist -- I've never
>>heard a woman said to be a master of anything. Masterful, yes. To master
>>something, yes. But a master, no.

Try the Master of the Royal Mint, and the Master of Sidney Sussex College,
Cambridge (or St Catharine's).

Katy


    Àü´Þ  
¸Þ½ÃÁö¸¦ °Ô½ÃÇÏ·Á¸é ±×·ì¿¡ °¡ÀÔÇØ¾ß ÇÕ´Ï´Ù.
¸Þ½ÃÁö¸¦ °Ô½ÃÇÏ·Á¸é ¸ÕÀú ÇØ´ç ±×·ì¿¡ °¡ÀÔÇÏ¼Å¾ß ÇÕ´Ï´Ù.
°Ô½ÃÇϱâ Àü¿¡ °¡ÀÔ ¼³Á¤ ÆäÀÌÁö¿¡¼­ ´Ð³×ÀÓÀ» ¾÷µ¥ÀÌÆ®Çϼ¼¿ä.
¸Þ½ÃÁö¸¦ °Ô½ÃÇÒ ¼ö ÀÖ´Â ±ÇÇÑÀÌ ¾ø½À´Ï´Ù.
Leslie Danks  
ÇÁ·ÎÇÊ º¸±â   ·Î ¹ø¿ª ¹ø¿ªµÊ(¿ø¹® º¸±â)
(1 »ç¿ëÀÚ)  Ãß°¡ ¿É¼Ç 2008³â9¿ù23ÀÏ, ¿ÀÈÄ8½Ã43ºÐ
´º½º±×·ì: alt.usage.english
º¸³½»ç¶÷: Leslie Danks <leslie.da...@aon.at>
³¯Â¥: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 13:43:21 +0200
ÇöÁö½Ã°£: 2008³â9¿ù23ÀÏ(È­) ¿ÀÈÄ8½Ã43ºÐ
Á¦¸ñ: Re: Brit sociologits' banned words list

Donna Richoux wrote:

[...]

> Oh, and for those who doubt that "Old Masters" is sexist -- I've never
> heard a woman said to be a master of anything. Masterful, yes. To master
> something, yes. But a master, no.

I suggest "Old Masters and Mastrices" (plural of mastrix, which I think is
a criteria).

--
Les


    Àü´Þ  
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¸Þ½ÃÁö¸¦ °Ô½ÃÇÏ·Á¸é ¸ÕÀú ÇØ´ç ±×·ì¿¡ °¡ÀÔÇÏ¼Å¾ß ÇÕ´Ï´Ù.
°Ô½ÃÇϱâ Àü¿¡ °¡ÀÔ ¼³Á¤ ÆäÀÌÁö¿¡¼­ ´Ð³×ÀÓÀ» ¾÷µ¥ÀÌÆ®Çϼ¼¿ä.
¸Þ½ÃÁö¸¦ °Ô½ÃÇÒ ¼ö ÀÖ´Â ±ÇÇÑÀÌ ¾ø½À´Ï´Ù.
Alan Jones  
ÇÁ·ÎÇÊ º¸±â   ·Î ¹ø¿ª ¹ø¿ªµÊ(¿ø¹® º¸±â)
 Ãß°¡ ¿É¼Ç 2008³â9¿ù23ÀÏ, ¿ÀÈÄ9½Ã28ºÐ
´º½º±×·ì: alt.usage.english
º¸³½»ç¶÷: "Alan Jones" <a...@blueyonder.co.uk>
³¯Â¥: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 13:28:45 +0100
ÇöÁö½Ã°£: 2008³â9¿ù23ÀÏ(È­) ¿ÀÈÄ9½Ã28ºÐ
Á¦¸ñ: Re: Brit sociologits' banned words list

"Wood Avens" <woodav...@askjennison.com> wrote in message

news:7rkhd49391qjbomorlr8ihrc1glf06drm0@4ax.com...

> On Tue, 23 Sep 2008 13:11:42 +0200, t...@euronet.nl (Donna Richoux)
> wrote:

>>Oh, and for those who doubt that "Old Masters" is sexist -- I've never
>>heard a woman said to be a master of anything. Masterful, yes. To master
>>something, yes. But a master, no.

> Not even in chess?

And a female spy - might she be a master or mistress of disguise?

Alan Jones


    Àü´Þ  
¸Þ½ÃÁö¸¦ °Ô½ÃÇÏ·Á¸é ±×·ì¿¡ °¡ÀÔÇØ¾ß ÇÕ´Ï´Ù.
¸Þ½ÃÁö¸¦ °Ô½ÃÇÏ·Á¸é ¸ÕÀú ÇØ´ç ±×·ì¿¡ °¡ÀÔÇÏ¼Å¾ß ÇÕ´Ï´Ù.
°Ô½ÃÇϱâ Àü¿¡ °¡ÀÔ ¼³Á¤ ÆäÀÌÁö¿¡¼­ ´Ð³×ÀÓÀ» ¾÷µ¥ÀÌÆ®Çϼ¼¿ä.
¸Þ½ÃÁö¸¦ °Ô½ÃÇÒ ¼ö ÀÖ´Â ±ÇÇÑÀÌ ¾ø½À´Ï´Ù.
John O'Flaherty  
ÇÁ·ÎÇÊ º¸±â   ·Î ¹ø¿ª ¹ø¿ªµÊ(¿ø¹® º¸±â)
 Ãß°¡ ¿É¼Ç 2008³â9¿ù23ÀÏ, ¿ÀÈÄ10½Ã07ºÐ
´º½º±×·ì: alt.usage.english
º¸³½»ç¶÷: John O'Flaherty <quias...@yeeha.com>
³¯Â¥: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 08:07:26 -0500
ÇöÁö½Ã°£: 2008³â9¿ù23ÀÏ(È­) ¿ÀÈÄ10½Ã07ºÐ
Á¦¸ñ: Re: Brit sociologits' banned words list
On Tue, 23 Sep 2008 13:11:42 +0200, t...@euronet.nl (Donna Richoux)
wrote:

Master of Science, Master of Art, taskmaster, bandmaster, drillmaster,
toastmaster... there must be quite a few women among them.
"Master" is as sexist as "actor". Instead of calling women "actors",
should we call them all "theatrical performers"?
--
John

    Àü´Þ  
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¸Þ½ÃÁö¸¦ °Ô½ÃÇÏ·Á¸é ¸ÕÀú ÇØ´ç ±×·ì¿¡ °¡ÀÔÇÏ¼Å¾ß ÇÕ´Ï´Ù.
°Ô½ÃÇϱâ Àü¿¡ °¡ÀÔ ¼³Á¤ ÆäÀÌÁö¿¡¼­ ´Ð³×ÀÓÀ» ¾÷µ¥ÀÌÆ®Çϼ¼¿ä.
¸Þ½ÃÁö¸¦ °Ô½ÃÇÒ ¼ö ÀÖ´Â ±ÇÇÑÀÌ ¾ø½À´Ï´Ù.
J. J. Lodder  
ÇÁ·ÎÇÊ º¸±â   ·Î ¹ø¿ª ¹ø¿ªµÊ(¿ø¹® º¸±â)
 Ãß°¡ ¿É¼Ç 2008³â9¿ù23ÀÏ, ¿ÀÈÄ10½Ã09ºÐ
´º½º±×·ì: alt.usage.english
º¸³½»ç¶÷: nos...@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder)
³¯Â¥: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 15:09:32 +0200
ÇöÁö½Ã°£: 2008³â9¿ù23ÀÏ(È­) ¿ÀÈÄ10½Ã09ºÐ
Á¦¸ñ: Re: Brit sociologits' banned words list

Donna Richoux <t...@euronet.nl> wrote:
> Oh, and for those who doubt that "Old Masters" is sexist --

Old Masters lived in sexist days.
There really were very few women among them.
(Judith Lijster for example)

> I've never
> heard a woman said to be a master of anything. Masterful, yes. To master
> something, yes. But a master, no.

They do get a 'master of science' degree,
don't they?
And "female masters" does get a lot of google hits,
as does "she is (or was) was a master",
not all of them appropriate, but still a lot,

Jan


    Àü´Þ  
¸Þ½ÃÁö¸¦ °Ô½ÃÇÏ·Á¸é ±×·ì¿¡ °¡ÀÔÇØ¾ß ÇÕ´Ï´Ù.
¸Þ½ÃÁö¸¦ °Ô½ÃÇÏ·Á¸é ¸ÕÀú ÇØ´ç ±×·ì¿¡ °¡ÀÔÇÏ¼Å¾ß ÇÕ´Ï´Ù.
°Ô½ÃÇϱâ Àü¿¡ °¡ÀÔ ¼³Á¤ ÆäÀÌÁö¿¡¼­ ´Ð³×ÀÓÀ» ¾÷µ¥ÀÌÆ®Çϼ¼¿ä.
¸Þ½ÃÁö¸¦ °Ô½ÃÇÒ ¼ö ÀÖ´Â ±ÇÇÑÀÌ ¾ø½À´Ï´Ù.
James Silverton  
ÇÁ·ÎÇÊ º¸±â   ·Î ¹ø¿ª ¹ø¿ªµÊ(¿ø¹® º¸±â)
 Ãß°¡ ¿É¼Ç 2008³â9¿ù23ÀÏ, ¿ÀÈÄ10½Ã18ºÐ
´º½º±×·ì: alt.usage.english
º¸³½»ç¶÷: "James Silverton" <not.jim.silver...@verizon.net>
³¯Â¥: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 09:18:34 -0400
ÇöÁö½Ã°£: 2008³â9¿ù23ÀÏ(È­) ¿ÀÈÄ10½Ã18ºÐ
Á¦¸ñ: Re: Brit sociologits' banned words list
 Alan  wrote  on Tue, 23 Sep 2008 13:28:45 +0100:

> "Wood Avens" <woodav...@askjennison.com> wrote in message
> news:7rkhd49391qjbomorlr8ihrc1glf06drm0@4ax.com...
>> On Tue, 23 Sep 2008 13:11:42 +0200, t...@euronet.nl (Donna Richoux)
>> wrote:

>>> Oh, and for those who doubt that "Old Masters" is sexist --
>>> I've never heard a woman said to be a master of anything.
>>> Masterful, yes. To master something, yes. But a master, no.

>> Not even in chess?
> And a female spy - might she be a master or mistress of
> disguise?

Some countries, even those with different definite articles for
masculine and feminine, are not so picky. I remember being surprised to
see a lawyers' office name plate with "Maitre Christine Lebrun" many
years ago in Bordeaux.

As was mentioned, chess players don't mention "chess mistresses". A
recent news article reported a new chess grand master, a relatively
young and attractive lady.

--

James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland

Email, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not


    Àü´Þ  
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¸Þ½ÃÁö¸¦ °Ô½ÃÇÏ·Á¸é ¸ÕÀú ÇØ´ç ±×·ì¿¡ °¡ÀÔÇÏ¼Å¾ß ÇÕ´Ï´Ù.
°Ô½ÃÇϱâ Àü¿¡ °¡ÀÔ ¼³Á¤ ÆäÀÌÁö¿¡¼­ ´Ð³×ÀÓÀ» ¾÷µ¥ÀÌÆ®Çϼ¼¿ä.
¸Þ½ÃÁö¸¦ °Ô½ÃÇÒ ¼ö ÀÖ´Â ±ÇÇÑÀÌ ¾ø½À´Ï´Ù.
R H Draney  
ÇÁ·ÎÇÊ º¸±â   ·Î ¹ø¿ª ¹ø¿ªµÊ(¿ø¹® º¸±â)
 Ãß°¡ ¿É¼Ç 2008³â9¿ù23ÀÏ, ¿ÀÈÄ10½Ã24ºÐ
´º½º±×·ì: alt.usage.english
º¸³½»ç¶÷: R H Draney <dadoc...@spamcop.net>
³¯Â¥: 23 Sep 2008 06:24:44 -0700
ÇöÁö½Ã°£: 2008³â9¿ù23ÀÏ(È­) ¿ÀÈÄ10½Ã24ºÐ
Á¦¸ñ: Re: Brit sociologits' banned words list
Donna Richoux filted:

>Oh, and for those who doubt that "Old Masters" is sexist -- I've never
>heard a woman said to be a master of anything. Masterful, yes. To master
>something, yes. But a master, no.

  http://www.godsdirectcontact.org/eng/article/chinghai.html

Never met her myself, but I like the response she reportedly gave a heckler at
one of her rallies:  "I invite you to shut up"....r

--
Little-known fact:  About 2% of the famous
quotations credited to "Anonymous" were actually
originated by Jasper D Anonymous, a 14th-century
maker of carriage wheels.


    Àü´Þ  
¸Þ½ÃÁö¸¦ °Ô½ÃÇÏ·Á¸é ±×·ì¿¡ °¡ÀÔÇØ¾ß ÇÕ´Ï´Ù.
¸Þ½ÃÁö¸¦ °Ô½ÃÇÏ·Á¸é ¸ÕÀú ÇØ´ç ±×·ì¿¡ °¡ÀÔÇÏ¼Å¾ß ÇÕ´Ï´Ù.
°Ô½ÃÇϱâ Àü¿¡ °¡ÀÔ ¼³Á¤ ÆäÀÌÁö¿¡¼­ ´Ð³×ÀÓÀ» ¾÷µ¥ÀÌÆ®Çϼ¼¿ä.
¸Þ½ÃÁö¸¦ °Ô½ÃÇÒ ¼ö ÀÖ´Â ±ÇÇÑÀÌ ¾ø½À´Ï´Ù.
John Dean  
ÇÁ·ÎÇÊ º¸±â   ·Î ¹ø¿ª ¹ø¿ªµÊ(¿ø¹® º¸±â)
 Ãß°¡ ¿É¼Ç 2008³â9¿ù23ÀÏ, ¿ÀÈÄ10½Ã58ºÐ
´º½º±×·ì: alt.usage.english, alt.religion.christian.east-orthodox
º¸³½»ç¶÷: "John Dean" <john-d...@fraglineone.net>
³¯Â¥: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 14:58:12 +0100
ÇöÁö½Ã°£: 2008³â9¿ù23ÀÏ(È­) ¿ÀÈÄ10½Ã58ºÐ
Á¦¸ñ: Re: Brit sociologits' banned words list

Steve Hayes wrote:

> The list of banned words was written by the British Sociological
> Association, whose members include dozens of professors, lecturers and
> researchers.

I think sociolo-git is a wonderful coinage.
--
John Dean
Oxford

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º¸³½»ç¶÷: Athel Cornish-Bowden <athel...@yahoo.co.uk>
³¯Â¥: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 16:59:46 +0200
ÇöÁö½Ã°£: 2008³â9¿ù23ÀÏ(È­) ¿ÀÈÄ11½Ã59ºÐ
Á¦¸ñ: Re: Brit sociologits' banned words list
On 2008-09-23 15:58:12 +0200, "John Dean" <john-d...@fraglineone.net> said:

> Steve Hayes wrote:

>> The list of banned words was written by the British Sociological
>> Association, whose members include dozens of professors, lecturers and
>> researchers.

> I think sociolo-git is a wonderful coinage.

I regret I took it for a typo. But if it was a coinage I agree.

--
athel


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ÇöÁö½Ã°£: 2008³â9¿ù24ÀÏ(¼ö) ¿ÀÀü12½Ã49ºÐ
Á¦¸ñ: Re: Brit sociologits' banned words list

Excluding all the female masters of arts, sciences and business
administration, of course. More pertinently, Sandra Dawson is Master of
Sidney Sussex College at Cambridge.

--
Laura
(emulate St. George for email)


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Steve Hayes  
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º¸³½»ç¶÷: Steve Hayes <hayesm...@hotmail.com>
³¯Â¥: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 18:05:03 +0200
ÇöÁö½Ã°£: 2008³â9¿ù24ÀÏ(¼ö) ¿ÀÀü1½Ã05ºÐ
Á¦¸ñ: Re: Brit sociologits' banned words list

On Tue, 23 Sep 2008 12:08:12 +0200, Linards Ticmanis <ticma...@gmx.de> wrote:
>Steve Hayes wrote:
>> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/debates/2988760/The-phrase...

>> The phrase Old Masters is sexist, authors and students are told

>> Students and academics are being banned from using the term "Old
>> Masters" and "seminal" because of claims they are sexist.

>I wonder if the whole thing isn't an urban legend created by some
>anti-PC people. It just sounds too absurd. Does the Telegraph cite a source?

It certainly sounds that way. They mentioned a body, but not a publication.

The trouble is, people do sometimes sound like caricatures of themselves.

--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
Web:  http://hayesfam.bravehost.com/stevesig.htm
Blog: http://methodius.blogspot.com
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk


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